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#11
12-13-2012, 07:49 PM
 tshan Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 8

thanks everyone's kind help and suggestion, this encoded text message is really different than usual, because it is ordered by group of 5, I think which is the way that our professor try to make it easy to read?? but somehow, it becomes the hard part for others who solve cryptograms in a regular way, usually cryptogram shows the exactly decoded english words separated by regular space.
Example for regular cryptogram:
UQ TYBQ ZMK
WE HAVE FUN

In this case it is more similar like:
UQTYB QZMK
WEHAV EFUN

I think it is the point. But as a new on solving Cryptogram games, I really been a hard time to understand how to guess the letters =.= I just feel crazy when I read a such long message with ridiculous group ordered. Hope you guys could give me more suggestions ^_^ BTW, im a new here, but Im not trying to play u guys and make myself smart, just hope u who is more professional than me, could help me out some. best regards!!

Last edited by tshan : 12-13-2012 at 07:55 PM.
#12
12-14-2012, 05:43 AM
 pajarito7 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 38

tshan,
Since frequency anaylsis doesn't help with this code, it is likely a polygraphic substitution. Depending on what you are learning in your applied math class, some type of mathematical algorithm is applied to a group of letters to generate the cipher text. If you are studying linear algebra, then it is likely that letters are grouped into digraphs, and then multiplied by a 2x2 matrix key. The letters that are generated each represent two letters in the original text. You would need to find the matrix inverse to decode this, or your professor may have supplied the matrix key. The blocks of 5 letters are just the common way of grouping the digraph substitutions.
#13
12-14-2012, 06:18 AM
 pootie49 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 394

well ...that was my second theory H.
LOL
smarty pants!
#14
12-14-2012, 06:26 AM
 Lurker Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 379

She lost me somewhere around "diagraphs".
__________________
Slotted spoons don't hold much soup. - Stephen Sondheim
#15
12-14-2012, 08:29 AM
 pootie49 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 394

She does that.
Mostly I just smile and nod and look
like I have a cloo.
Luckily she's a real nice lady
No hoity toity there.
(knows that P7 doesnt mind we are speaking
of her in the third person)
Whuts a diagraph?
Is that one of those games they made
with the circles and you put a pen in it
Anyone remember those??
Spirograph... thats it.
#16
12-14-2012, 09:09 AM
 tshan Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 8

Hi pajarito7,
I think you might in the right track, it need to work out a keyword that could help to inverse to decode and encode this cryptogram. But do you know how to work it out?? because my professor is really an asshole, he never help us on assignment questions, only tell us it is hard and complicated, he cant do it.
#17
12-14-2012, 09:33 AM
 fredsevent Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 54
groups of 5

Warning : this is a digression

pretty sure I've mentioned it before - groups of five are a classic way to transmit cipher. Back in the day, many ciphers were sent by unreliable methods and the grouping made it easier to detect and fix errors. As for why 5 in particular, I'm sure it has something to do with the facts that we use a base 10 counting system yet 10 is beyond most people's short term memory, while 5 is not.

That stated, there may be a particular reason this cipher is in groups of 5 so you cannot totally discount that. Especially as in classic systems you'd pad out the last one so that you sent all groups of 5.

As for this cipher, I really haven't looked at it. Had you presented it as a puzzle, I would have but I'm afraid I'm of the belief your homework is your homework and you must sink or swim accordingly. Asking your professor and fellow students for help may be fair game, but trying to enlist outside experts seems....
#18
12-14-2012, 06:58 PM
 pajarito7 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 38

pootie,
I still have my spirograph set!!!
Digraph substitution just means substituting one letter for every two letters in the text. Frequency analysis can still be used since combos like th and sh are much more frequent than zr or qr, but it's a lot more work.

tshan,
you lost me when you called your professor an "a**hole"
I've thrown students out of the lab for less than that.
#19
12-14-2012, 08:58 PM
 tshan Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 8

Yo come on pajarito7, you should know how ridiculous and sucks a professor never answer students' questions , and always tell them it is too hard for me to solve it, even do not give you a tip and any help after class.
#20
12-15-2012, 01:52 AM
 chopstix Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 33

Yo tshan -

You're making it very clear that the problem in regards to a math course and not an English or grammar class!

Anyhow, you've previously been polite and rather humble, I suggest you don't tempt the others on this site to come to the defense of seasoned player. It's best to keep it upbeat.

This is not a good forum for you to vent your frustration with your assignment and/or your professor.

Just my 2 cents...

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